Virtex 7 as bitcoin miner, how many gigahashes - Xilinx
FPGA Bitcoin Miner – BitcoinWiki
FPGAs Threaten Smallcap Altcoins as Xilinx Enters Crypto ...
Best $100-$300 FPGA development board in 2018?
Hello, I’ve been trying to decide on a FPGA development board, and have only been able to find posts and Reddit threads from 4-5 years ago. So I wanted to start a new thread and ask about the best “mid-range” FGPA development board in 2018. (Price range $100-$300.) I started with this Quora answer about FPGA boards, from 2013. The Altera DE1 sounded good. Then I looked through the Terasic DE boards. Then I found this Reddit thread from 2014, asking about the DE1-SoC vs the Cyclone V GX Starter Kit: https://www.reddit.com/FPGA/comments/1xsk6w/cyclone_v_gx_starter_kit_vs_de1soc_board/ (I was also leaning towards the DE1-SoC.) Anyway, I thought I better ask here, because there are probably some new things to be aware of in 2018. I’m completely new to FPGAs and VHDL, but I have experience with electronics/microcontrollers/programming. My goal is to start with some basic soft-core processors. I want to get some C / Rust programs compiling and running on my own CPU designs. I also want to play around with different instruction sets, and maybe start experimenting with asynchronous circuits (e.g. clock-less CPUs) Also I don’t know if this is possible, but I’d like to experiment with ternary computing, or work with analog signals instead of purely digital logic. EDIT: I just realized that you would call those FPAAs, i.e. “analog” instead of “gate”. Would be cool if there was a dev board that also had an FPAA, but no problem if not. EDIT 2: I also realized why "analog signals on an FPGA" doesn't make any sense, because of how LUTs work. They emulate boolean logic with a lookup table, and the table can only store 0s and 1s. So there's no way to emulate a transistor in an intermediate state. I'll just have play around with some transistors on a breadboard. UPDATE: I've put together a table with some of the best options:
A very simple FPGA development board that plugs into a Raspberry Pi, so you have a "backup" hard-core CPU that can control networking, etc. Supports a huge range of pmod accessories. You can write a program/circuit so that the Raspberry Pi CPU and the FPGA work together, similar to a SoC. Proprietary bitstream is fully reverse engineered and supported by Project IceStorm, and there is an open-source toolchain that can compile your hardware design to bitstream. Has everything you need to start experimenting with FPGAs.
Xilinx Zynq 7-Series SoC - ARM Cortex-A9 processor, and Artix-7 FPGA. 125 IO pins. 1GB DDR2 RAM. Texas Instruments WiLink 8 wireless module for 802.11n Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 4.1. No LEDs or buttons, but easy to wire up your own on a breadboard. If you want to use a baseboard, you'll need a snickerdoodle black ($195) with the pins in the "down" orientation. (E.g. The "breakyBreaky breakout board" ($49) or piSmasher SBC ($195)). The snickerdoodle one only comes with pins in the "up" orientation and doesn't support any baseboards. But you can still plug the jumpers into the pins and wire up things on a breadboard.
Has one of the latest Xilinx SoCs. 2 GB (512M x32) LPDDR4 Memory. Wi-Fi / Bluetooth. Mini DisplayPort. 1x USB 3.0 type Micro-B, 2x USB 3.0 Type A. Audio I/O. Four user-controllable LEDs. No buttons and limited LEDs, but easy to wire up your own on a breadboard
Xilinx Zynq 7000 SoC (ARM Cortex-A9, 7-series FPGA.) 1 GB DDR3 RAM. A few switches, push buttons, and LEDs. USB and Ethernet. Audio in/out ports. HDMI source + sink with CEC. 8 Total Processor I/O, 40 Total FPGA I/O. Also a faster version for $299 (Zybo Z7-20).
Same as DE10-Standard, but not as many peripherals, buttons, LEDs, etc.
icoBoard ($100). (Buy it here.) The icoBoard plugs into a Raspberry Pi, so it's similar to having a SoC. The iCE40-HX8K chip comes with 7,680 LUTs (logic elements.) This means that after you learn the basics and create some simple circuits, you'll also have enough logic elements to run the VexRiscv soft-core CPU (the lightweight Murax SoC.) The icoBoard also supports a huge range of pluggable pmod accessories:
numato Mimas A7 ($149). An excellent development board with a Xilinx Artix 7 FPGA, so you can play with a bigger / faster FPGA and run a full RISC-V soft-core with all the options enabled, and a much higher clock speed. (The iCE40 FPGAs are a bit slow and small.)
I ordered a iCE40-HX8K Breakout Board to try out the IceStorm open source tooling. (I would have ordered an icoBoard if I had found it earlier.) I also bought a numato Mimas A7 so that I could experiment with the Artix 7 FPGA and Xilinx software (Vivado Design Suite.)
What can I do with an FPGA? / How many LUTs do I need?
VexRiscv is "A FPGA friendly 32 bit RISC-V CPU implementation." This is a RISC-V implementation written in SpinalHDL. VexRiscv has a lot of plugin and configuration options. The Murax SoC is a very light SoC that can run on an iCE40-HX8k (but probably not the 1k FPGA that only has 1,280 LUTs). The Briey SoC only runs on Xilinx or Altera FPGAs.
Why I see Virtcoin as a $200 coin when really considering ASIC resistance
First of all, Vertcoin does indeed have a tremendous community, and this is not to be understated. However, this is only a fraction of the value position of this coin. I just want to expand on the ASIC resistance thing a bit. As an electrical engineer who has actually designed ASIC's, I do have some background on this. What I can tell you is that this term "ASIC Resistant" is that it is a little bit misleading. In theory, any algorithm can be turned into an ASIC. An ASIC or Application Specific Integrated Circuit is a digital or analog or mixed analog digital circuit that has been cast into Sea of Gates, Semi-Custom, or Full Custom ASIC technology. The cheapest route is Sea of Gates. If one didn't want to do a Sea of Gates ASIC, they could implement an algorithm in a FPGA, or Field Programmable Gate Array. Altera and Xilinx are the dominant players here. In the early days of Bitcoin, there were many FPGA miners, this was a very common way to mine Bitcoin. Overall, It takes somewhere between USD $50,000 to $1,000,000 to make an ASIC. It's an expensive process. There is a tremendous amount of engineering, where the circuit is designed in System Verilog, Verilog or VHDL, and very extensive testbenches to make sure that the when the chip is made it works the first time. Engineers prototype ASICs in FPGA's, and the development boards for ASIC emulation can cost $20k or more just in themselves. Then the design goes to a foundry where the chip is made, and that will be expensive, $50k to $500k. So there has to be motivation to make an ASIC, such as high volume chip sales. For Sea of Gates technology, a rule of thumb is that there is typically a break even point when a company sells 1,000 to 2,000 chips a year that has been made into an ASIC. That is because Sea of Gates is about a $100k process. The ASIC Resistance of Vertcoin is not technology related, i.e. the algorithm that is currently being used could be made into an ASIC. What makes Vertcoin ASIC resistance is the commitment of the team to change the algorithm if someone does make an ASIC to mine Vertcoin. This is what gives Vertcoin it's value position. I really appreciate that! This is a de-facto way to limit the power of miners, in one simple swipe. How wants to deal with this Bitcoin forking situation anymore? At this point, with the upcoming fork, it seems more and more unnecessary. I see Bitcoin as a storage of value layer, and other coins such as VTC and LTC as transaction layer coins. To me what gives VTC value is the intention of the community AND the consequent action of it.
Why is getting into FPGA's such a crappy experience?
I'm a hobbyist and this is my first venture into FPGA's. I understand how FPGA works in theory. It's just a bunch of combinational logic connected by clock-connected flip-flops, whose topology and combinational functions can be programmed with a high level language. I bought a Xilinx board from embeddedmicro.com and I'm going to work through their tutorials. All I want to be able to do is specify a bunch of like registers and crap, and how to connect them with clocked flip-flops to do some really basic stuff like a simple CPU with 1-2 custom instructions or something. So why do I have to download a GIANT SIX GIGABYTE FILE TO DO THAT? What could this software possibly be doing that it needs to be that big? In a sane world, all I'd need is a board and a simple compiler which just takes the high-level language and turns it into the topology file to upload to the board. But in the insanity in which I am currently living, I have to download some gigantic IDE that is going to be huge and probably slower than mining bitcoins on an NES. I don't know because IT'S STILL DOWNLOADING. So to even get to the download, I had to log into the website, register, and give them a name and a physical address (and God forbid I should leave the "Company" field empty!). The Licensing crap on their website looks like you need an MBA to understand it. This company sells pieces of hardware, FFS! Why in Stallman's name can't they just make the software FOSS and let anyone download it instead of all this BS about WEBPACK this and annual upgrade that? Xilinx, in case you haven't noticed, in order for anyone to actually use your software, THEY HAVE TO BUY A CHIP OR BOARD AND YOU CAN MAKE MONEY OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS THAT WAY. CHARGING FOR SOFTWARE OR HAVING A BYZANTINE PROCESS FOR GETTING A FREE LICENSE MAKES ZERO SENSE FOR A HARDWARE COMPANY. Anyone know a place where you can just buy an FPGA board, plug it into a USB port, sudo apt-get install some FOSS compiler, type your Verilog or VHDL or whatever into emacs, run 2-5 commands and have a running design? If such a place doesn't exist, some startup needs to disrupt this industry. If you make it easy for people to develop for your HW, those devs will be inclined buy your product just to make their lives easier.
i said AMD and NVDA is overvalued and it became obvious.
Yes. i've said that AMD and NVDA is overvalued stock. and you should invest to INTC. AMD's Zen uarch isn't match with INTC's coffeelake uarch even now. of course i9-9900k has many problem and consumer's disappointment is Intel's fault totally. but, their counterpunch is comming. Intel's 10nm process has many profit than TSMC's 7nm HPC. they are not a moron. same situation was happend in 2006 - when AMD's AthlonX2 beat the shit out of Intel's pentuim IV processor -. and NVDA's GPU isn't best solution for AI Acceleration. it's obvious if you had seen Bitcoin market. people had mined Bitcoin by GPU at first but soon they make thier own Logic and synthesize FPGA and order ASIC to mine more coin effectively. same thing is happning in AI market. already Xilinx and Altera make AI Acceleration HW and it's way better than GPU. Intel already got Altera and Xeon scalable series has internal FPGA. IMO, INTC's price is deciline slowly before 2019 1Q but once they proove their ability by 10nm icelake CPU, price will soar over 100$ in 1~2years. already INTC's EPS is near 3$ while MSFT's EPS is 2$. Folk's opinion is just trash. but you should got some attention on Expert's opinion. although i'm not a one of Experts, i'm always looking for Expert and Developer's opinion and they always said people got some misunderstands on intel's movement. it's green light if you can move against folks.
There's a pretty interesting debate in the AI space right now on whether FPGAs or ASICs are the way to go for hardware-accelerated AI in production. To summarize, it's more about how to operationalize AI - how to use already trained models with millions of parameters to get real-time predictions, like in video analysis or complex time series models based on deep neural networks. Training those AI models still seems to favor GPUs for now. Google seem to be betting big on ASICs with their TPU. On the other hand, Microsoft and Amazon seem to favor FPGAs. In fact Microsoft have recently partnered with Xilinx to add FPGA co-processors on half of their servers (they were previously only using Intel's Altera). The FPGA is the more flexible piece of hardware but it is less efficient than an ASIC, and have been notoriously hard to program against (though things are improving). There's also a nice article out there summarizing the classical FPGA conundrum: they're great for designing and prototyping but as soon as your architecture stabilizes and you're looking to ramp up production, taking the time to do an ASIC will more often be the better investment. So the question (for me) is where AI inference will be in that regard. I'm sure Google's projects are large scale enough that an ASIC makes sense, but not everyone is Google. And there is so much research being done in the AI space right now and everyone's putting out so many promising new ideas that being more flexible might carry an advantage. Google have already put out three versions of their TPUs in the space of two years Which brings me back to Xilinx. They have a promising platform for AI acceleration both in the datacenter and embedded devices which was launched two months ago. If it catches on it's gonna give them a nice boost for the next couple of years. If it doesn't, they still have traditional Industrial, Aerospace & Defense workloads to fall back on... Another wrinkle is their SoCs are being used in crypto mining ASICs like Antminer, so you never know how that demand is gonna go. As the value of BTC continues to sink there is constant demand for more efficient mining hardware, and I do think cryptocurrencies are here to stay. While NVDA has fallen off a cliff recently due to excess GPU inventory, XLNX has kept steady. XLNX TTM P/E is 28.98 Semiconductors - Programmable Logic industry's TTM P/E is 26.48 Thoughts?
Background: My degree is in computer science. I've worked various jobs in IT related fields. I have programmed in a smattering of languages (C/Java/etc) and mostly worked at an application layer and up. In school I did take several computer hardware classes, and in one we built our own 16-bit MIPS CPU (with pipelining) in a circuit simulator that one of the professors had written himself in Java. We created our own DRAM cells, NAND/AND/XOetc gates, we created our own shifters and multiplexers, stuff like that. But again...in a Java GUI, not anything practical like verilog. End goal: I like performance. I like to tinker and make things go faster. I missed the bitcoin (and altcoin) FPGA rush by about 2-3 years. Currently, GPU mining is dominated by so-called 'ASIC resistant' algorithms which mostly resist ASICs by requiring a large amount of RAM (800MB-2GB, depending on algo) as part of the algorithm. Partly as a novelty for my personal use, and partly so that I have at least some level of knowledge of yet another IT field I can go into should I ever get laid off or sick of my current job, I want to learn how to program an FPGA for the purposes of implementing at least one of these ASIC-resistant algorithms. The energy savings over a GPU would be nice as well, as from what I can see most FPGAs are at least an order of magnitude, if not two, more efficient than a GPU. So, on to my questions:
Xilinx seems to be the number one 'newbie' FPGA maker (I say this because I see them mentioned more frequently than any other maker in threads foby newbies). Apparently I can download their software kit and use their simulator to design and test in software; I don't need the actual FPGA circuit/card until I am ready to put my design 'into production'. Am I correct in thinking this? Are there other manufacturers I should target instead?
Given my school experience designing circuits at something like a UML or CAD level, are there any recommended paths I should look into, or is learning VHDL/Verilog a pretty hard requirement to implementing any design? I'm asking because I'm ignorant.
Maybe best asked for later, but would the Xilinx simulator give me some idea of which FPGA I'd want to buy? Will it give me anything approaching an 'expected behavior' ('hey, it runs at 1h/s on your CPU, but on our Model XYZ it will run around 300-400 h/s!') Or will there be anything useful in helping me pick FPGAs? Because...I already looked, and holyfuckballs there are a shitload of FPGA models and makers and ohgod how do I pick from this literal shitstorm of models?!
Are high memory FPGAs a thing? I saw some stuff on Intel's website that indicated they had a (very expensive) FPGA that also had DDR4 slots built in. That would solve the memory issue. Do I actually need that though? Would it be the case that even a cheap (~$100) FPGA would end up having enough cells to implement 1GB of memory? I don't really care if I end up having a massive grid of registers, apart from the fact that, well, logic not used for computation is wasted energy and silicon space. But maybe 1GB of memory ends up being super tiny on an FPGA? Again, I understand how to build 1GB of memory in circuits, but not on an FPGA or in silicon.
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I'm slowly learning about bitcoin and litecoin. I've thought a little lately about litecoin mining hardware. This is my analysis. I've only had tangential exposure to hardware design, so my estimates or assumptions might be off. Feedback welcome! The scrypt litecoin hash function is dominated by an operation called a salsa: it runs 2048 salsas for each hash, and each salsa involves reading/writing a 128B block from a 128KB scratch buffer. The requirement to have a 128KB buffer for each running hash is what makes scrypt difficult to accelerate. The 128B blocks are written successively in the first phase of 1024 salsas (the output of each salsa), and then read randomly in the second phase of 1024 salsas. I thought about implementing the salsa on a Xilinx FPGA. I implemented a few salsa building blocks to get an idea on timing. The Xilinx chips have 2KB distributed blocks of RAM, but there isn't nearly enough on-chip memory to support many concurrent hashes. One idea is to store every 64 salsa output in the first phase, and then recompute intermediate salsas as needed. This means you need to do an expected 32 extra salsas for each salsa in the second phase. Based on my experiments, it seemed like a 32 clock (latency) salsa running at 200+MHz is possible (or better, but this seems like the right order of magnitude) on an Artix-6 which costs about $300. The Artix-6 has 730 2KB buffers. Thus, I estimate:
730 (number of concurrent hashes) * (200M (clock frequency) / (1024 (salsas per phase) * (1 + 33) (expected computed salsas per salsa) * 32 (clock cycles per computed salsa))) = 130.6KH/s
This gives 0.44KH/$. A 7970 card gets 1.75KH/$. We're off by a factor of 4 in price/performance. This design might work in an ASIC. In a custom design, you can tune the trade-off between memory and computation, and probably improve the speed estimates above. I'm still trying to estimate the cost of such an ASIC design, but I'm a little out of my depth. I started to wonder why a 7970 gets such awesome price/performance. The other options is to put the 128KB blocks in DRAM. You don't need that much memory: 1GB gives you space for 8K concurrent hashes. But now you need high bandwidth to feed the salsa units. Each salsa reads 128B. A 7970 has a 260GB/s GDDR5 memory interface. That's
Actual reported rates are around 700KH/s. I think that is because of the random access patterns in the second phase of salsas. That's about 1.75KH/$. So the other option would be an ASIC with the salsa units and a GDDR5 memory interface like a 7970 board. I estimate (from octopart.com) the cost of the 3GB of DRAM on a 7970 card is about $60. Let's say the ASIC is $20 (about the cost of the bitcoin ASICs, but it might be wildly inaccurate for a chip and package that can support a 384 bit GDDR5 memory interface). Then we get 8.75KH/$, or about 5x the GPUs. Unfortunately, GDDR5 is a bleeding edge memory standard. An FPGA couldn't possibly manage that level of performance at this point. Designing a GDDR5 board and memory controller would probably be extremely difficult. You could ask, what is the fatest DRAM interface supported by an FPGA? The Spartan-6 (approx $90 and up) can support a 64-bit DDR2 PC-800 interface. That's 1.6GB/s, so
1.6GB/s (bandwidth) / (2048 * 128) = 6KH/s.
A DDR2 PC-800 DIMM is about $14. That's a pathetic 0.06KH/$. You can manage 1066 or 1333 in a faster part, but that doesn't help price/performance. tl;dr: Trading memory for recompute puts FPGAs about 4x behind GPUs for price/performance in rough estimate. Same idea for ASIC is worth a closer look. GPUs are surprisingly efficient for scrypt! ASIC+GDDR5 memory is competitve, but design is out of reach for mere mortals. edit: formatting.
Has anyone thought about using FPGAs to mine litecoins? In particular, I was thinking about Xilinx Vertex FPGAs, which have large amount of block RAM, which might be useful for the litecoin RAM-intensive hashing algorithm. However, they don't have enough block RAM to saturate the logic with hash units, so you'd still need a board with off-chip RAM, although not much. On the downside, they are much more expensive than the Spartan FPGAs most FPGA Bitcoin miners seem to be using.
Xilinx offers a comprehensive multi-node portfolio to address requirements across a wide set of applications. Whether you are designing a state-of-the art, high-performance networking application requiring the highest capacity, bandwidth, and performance, or looking for a low-cost, small footprint FPGA to take your software-defined technology to the next level, Xilinx FPGAs and 3D ICs provide ... Field programmable gate array (FPGA) is an integrated circuit designed to be configured by the customer or designer after manufacturing—hence "field-programmable".FPGAs are integrated circuits that can be tailored to suit a particular task like mining bitcoins, after their manufacturing thus creating ASIC. Other FPGA Architecture: Virtex 7 as bitcoin miner, how many gigahashes; Options. Subscribe to RSS Feed; Mark Topic as New; Mark Topic as Read ; Float this Topic for Current User; Bookmark; Subscribe; Mute; Printer Friendly Page; Highlighted. jrsaballa. Visitor Mark as New; Bookmark; Subscribe; Mute; Subscribe to RSS Feed; Permalink; Print; Email to a Friend; Report Inappropriate Content 10 ... This is the first open source FPGA Bitcoin miner. It was released on May 20, 2011. Contents. 1 Software needed; 2 Compiling. 2.1 Altera; 2.2 Changing the clock speed; 3 Programming the FPGA. 3.1 Altera; 3.2 Using urjtag; 4 Mining. 4.1 Altera; 5 See Also; 6 External Links; 7 Source; Software needed . Currently programming and running the FPGAminer code' requires Quartus II for Altera devices ... Bitcoin miner for Xilinx FPGAs. Contribute to teknohog/Xilinx-Serial-Miner development by creating an account on GitHub.
Unboxing the Xilinx VCU1525 FPGA - Crypto Mining! - YouTube
Unboxing the Xilinx VCU1525 FPGA. This massive FPGA is going to be used for cryptocurrency mining. I will be posting more on this card and getting it mining.... ELE 432- FPGA Bitcoin Miner - Duration: 4:08. Burak 14,472 views. 4:08. 8 x Xilinx VCU1525 FPGA Crypto-Mining Rig Demo - Duration: 8:35. Zetheron Technology 45,200 views. 8:35. Is Mining on ASICs ... Xilinx/Sqrl BCU1525 FPGA cryptocurrency mining demo #3. This short video by Whitefire990 demonstrates an FPGA mining rig consisting of 8 Xilinx VCU1525 FPGA cards. The cards are running freely available software a... Cracked the 10Gh/s barrier mining 0xBitcoin on the Xilinx VCU1525 FPGA. I used a antminer fan and created a DIY cardboard funnel to help with the additional cooling. I'll be adding a rear heatsink ...